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Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 01:41:00 - [1] I don't understand why everyone says you need uber skills to be good in a tempest. I have never flown one but I have a made good setup on quickfit using many level 4 skills but none at level five except for the obvious engineering, electronics and gunnery. All other important skills at level 4 I can still have this setup Highs 6x Scout arty cannons Still enough pg for a cruise missile or a med nos(can you nos drones because in description some have a large cap capacity??) mids Em ward hardener thermal hardener Xl shield booster Tracking comp t2 target painter or sensor booster lows 3x cap relay t2's(are those seeded) 2x t2 gyrostabs 1x t2 damage control(those are useful if you dont want to lose 150 mil worth of stuff+ higher resists) What are your opinions on this setup. Should I use a T2 large shield booster instead? Btw my damge modifier on the scouts is 13.85 and a rof of 11 seconds.If you really want 3 gyro stabs sacrifice a cap relay instead, but the damage control stays. And please dont tell me if you cant afford to lose don't but because no matter how much money you have losing 150 mil is a big deal. Can You please post what your damage modifiers are and rof as well as relative skills. Is this good enough to be frank?
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 02:08:00 - [2] Damn it didn't see the shield boosting penalty on the thing. I thought it was shield regeneration penalty. Can't fit the pds's without a co-proc or putting on a t2 large shield booster. Which isn't bad because the pds give me the grid to fit 2 heavy nos. What I really want to know is if logistic drones actually have a lot of cap in the game and can you nos them?? Please remember to post opinions on skillsa and damage modifiers/rof.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 02:21:00 - [3] Yes Bs level 5 is good to have but is it worth a month of training? All it does is give .5 extra damage modifier and a second less on your rof. And if you know if you know your not going to shield tank you don't need skills in both. Why would you need 5-7 million skill points in gunnery. To get from maybe 1 million to 5 million sp would be going from level 4 rapid fire,large projectiles,surgical strike and sharpshooter to all of those level 5. And I dont' see what the point of going t2 is. For those two other crappy types of ammo train 6 mil sp? Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but I want someone with thos 6 il sp to post their damage modifier and rof to see exactly what the difference is.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 02:32:00 - [4] No I would put the nos if I could suck cap from my drones, READ the damn post before you go insulting me! I know nosing drones sounds dumb but I want to know if it is possible And I changed the relays to pds in another post. Why not tank and gank? I dont expect to be fighting inties, which is another reason the nos is useful, I expect to kill Bs's. So I dont need to be 100km out because a Bs will never get close enough if I'm 70 km away.Even with an mwd , which would be dumb. It would take them to long and they wont have enough cap. Therefore a sensorbooster would be useless.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 02:36:00 - [5] Arty are really useful in fleet or so I have heard and ratting which you have already said.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 12:06:00 - [6] Im still kinda of not understanding how with"low" skills you should get a cyclone. It doesn't have a damage bonus, and can't use large ammo. I'll accept the fact that you need tons of skills but why? I'm only going to use it for ratting and fleet eventually when I can buy one.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 13:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 05/03/2006 13:05:37 Even I think level 3 for gunnery skills is kind of low. But If you say you could handle level 4 easily than I guess I will do better with level 4 skills. Imho I don't dont think you need to be so skill intensive. Can someone post how long it takes to train these skills up if engineering takes 6 days. I can't recall my attributes exactly. And would it be worth training up my learning skills. I don't know if want to spend an extra month and a half training up medium,small projectiles and sharpshooter to level 5 just for t2 ammo. tbh I don't want to train any skills to levle 5 that have a training time multiplier of 5 and 8. I believe those would take more than a month. AND CAN YOU NOS DRONES??
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 14:09:00 - [8] More Posts on average damage and skills please.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 20:38:00 - [9] Why do you need t2 guns? To me the ammo that cut your range in half but increases damage sucks because you are going to die at that range because you cant track for crap at that range. I'm thinkin just train up BS,Largeprojectile and surg. strike to 5 while other stuff is at level 4. I don't thik t2 ammo is worth an extra month of training. For the long range ammo I don't plan on sniping from 200 km away and I won't need to for killing other Bs's because a BS is a slug. LArge artillery specialization is useful but once again not worth the extra month of training. Can someone post what your damage modifier looks like with the surg. 5,large projectiles 5 and Bs 5 without the specialization. AND CAN YOU NOS DRONES?? this is not a rhetorical question
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 22:55:00 - [10] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Matrices Reborn Why do you need t2 guns? To me the ammo that cut your range in half but increases damage sucks because you are going to die at that range because you cant track for crap at that range. I'm thinkin just train up BS,Largeprojectile and surg. strike to 5 while other stuff is at level 4. I don't thik t2 ammo is worth an extra month of training. For the long range ammo I don't plan on sniping from 200 km away and I won't need to for killing other Bs's because a BS is a slug. LArge artillery specialization is useful but once again not worth the extra month of training. Can someone post what your damage modifier looks like with the surg. 5,large projectiles 5 and Bs 5 without the specialization. AND CAN YOU NOS DRONES?? this is not a rhetorical question keep thinking that till you get nailed by Quake L for a 3.3k dmg wrecking shot. Theoretically a very lucky machariel/tempest pilot with domination gyros could 1 volley a BS. Arent you frogetting that t2 ammo is only good against armor. ACtually Ill be laughing as the guy with quake L can't reach me. I suppose you could load out half with quake and some with phased plasma but that would be retarded because you would have different ranges for different guns. I ve proved that one t2 ammo sucks and I'm not going to snipe with the other which is only good against armor. BTW I'm sure specialization is useful but 1 more on the damge modifier isn't worth one month of training or more.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 23:24:00 - [11] Originally by: HadHaFangs T2 Projectiles = Better ROF and base DMG Mod = More over all damage with T1 ammo You don't get a better rof if you just use scouts. And another thing I didn't think about was the lvl 5 for adv. weapons upgrades and sharpshooter 5 for t2 beacause of more pg usage. There is a slight difference in damage mod. but for last time not worth 2 months of training. I can also rat against multi-million isk Bs spawns for a couple weeks and make 300 mil+ and spend that on implants instead of training for two months. There is the disadvantage of losing them when podded though. I won't be able to use the sucky t2 ammo but I'll close the gap between damage mod.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.05 23:59:00 - [12] Originally by: xaioguai 1400 tempest is good only at alpha strike. imho, without 17 damage mod, its not worth fitting 1400s. the way of using it is to kill before they come too close. but while you do full shield tanking with 1400s, you will get mostly miss below 30km and your range won't be too impressive either. at the end, your hit area will be very narrow (area between 60km-40km)and yet with 13 damage mod and 11 rof, you can hardly kill an approaching BS or cruisers. I think it may be better if you do full shield tanking with 1200s, they sux, but with better tracking and less fitting req, may work better with full shield tank and no tracking computers. I agreed before that 13 damage mod. is not good enough. I will train up large proj.,surg. strike and bs to level 5 but t2 will have to wait because I dont want to train t2 medium and small proj. I guess I will get it with below avg. skills and use it for ratting. While doing that I will train up the necessary skills. Originally by: Tiuwaz Matrices you have already your opinion, go rat with 1400's you havent been in fleetbattles you prolly have never pvped with an arty tempest, otherwise you'd know why t2 guns are great and why the t2 ammo is of use you dont need 30 million skillpoints to fly a tempest and kill stuff, but dont expect it to perform that well with 6 mill sp or less. being able to kill stuff doesnt mean its good, its about the efficency, even with good skills i wouldnt recommend ratting with 1400 >_> but plz go out there and get some experiences yourself with a tempest Thats a good idea but now that you guys have drilled into my head how many skills you need I will either do what I said above,rat and train skills, or think about get a different ship that is useful and will act as a midwaypoint to the tempest in terms of skills.Any suggestions? BTW I have seen fleet action and I've seen tempests rat and do pvp.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.06 00:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Large specialize takes about 2-2.5 months. BS 5 is another month or so. If you feel reeeally commited towards getting those T2 guns and BS5, go ahead. I have cooler htings to train in that 1/4 of a year. my point exactly
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.06 01:11:00 - [14] I don't think its a good idea to armour tank with arty because 3 are used for gyro stabs and you don't have the pg for the repairers. My Improved Tempest setup Highs: 6x scout arty cannons ftw!(loaded with phased plasma) 2x named heavy nos-for nosing drones Mids: t2 tracking comp target painter 2x invul. fields or whatever combo of hardeners that makes you fell safe inside t2 large shieldbooster Lows: 3x gyro stabilizer 3x pds t2 Interesting AC setup Highs: 6x 650mm scout repeating artillery 2x named nos Mids: 3x hynos multi-specs Booster rocket ab Epsilon warp prohibitor Lows: 2x t2 gyrostabs t2 adaptive nano explosive hardener 2x large armour repairer t2 ---------------------------------------------------------- On the Arty setup the pds are to add pg and a source of cap. The nos is to suck the drones of cap which will be 2 large shield drone and 5 light drones against inties. --------------------------------------------------------- For the Ac setup I thonk it's unique because you get really good jamming(60% avg. chance) combined with a good tank combined with good gank. I think this setup will own solo. and in fleet because who suspects a tempest of jamming? If the AC's can't track well have couple webber drones and 5 light drones once again. Comments?
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.06 01:40:00 - [15] Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 06/03/2006 01:41:27 Do you need to have tons of skills for AC's as well? I hope not. Why not shield tank for the arty setup. I don't plan on sniping. Although using phased plasma gives me an optimal of 40 km which I don't think is enough. Adding another tracking comp. gives an extra 7km. Any suggestions for good ammo types to use. Btw for the ac setup you could get rid of a repairer for a another hardener but there isn't any room for damage control. My arty setup is meant for pvp
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.06 02:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Matrices Reborn on 06/03/2006 02:40:26 I want a long range setup for pvp in a fleet or small gang with a half decent tank.
Matrices Reborn	Posted - 2006.03.06 20:10:00 - [17] thanks for all your help and opinions guys.

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